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What's weird to me is when influencers and "fashion people" say "hey, I should be including more plus sized bodies in my work because my own body is changing and I've realized I'm leaving money on the table." Well, you've been leaving money on the table this whole time. You are not your customer. That's just marketing and product design 101. Congratulations on gaining a few pounds and realizing that you've yet to master the basics of your business. But then again, maybe we should blame general fatphobia for this. Many "fashion people" are women and the general pervasive pattern of fat phobic thinking has trapped them into a business model that is stuck in an ever shrinking market.

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Yes that pissed me off too. It feels very right wing to ignore others’ struggles until you experience it yourself 🙄🙄🙄

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Right wing is exactly what it is.

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I think this is a great post because it points to an obvious yet under-recognized fact: most people are not “fashion people,” but everyone needs to get dressed every day. And everyone who gets dressed—which again is LITERALLY EVERYONE—spends at least some time considering what to put on their body and what impression it will give. When you think about it like that, style is a universally relevant topic. So the positioning of capital-F Fashion as something that’s just for thin people, or rich people, or beautiful people only makes sense through the lens of elitism (which, in this context at least, encompasses fatphobia, racism, classism, ageism, etc.). To use a way-too-on-the-nose metaphor, the emperor has no clothes!

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this is SO GOOD. yes, I often create a distinction between style and "fashion". capital F fashion does feel like it's out of reach, for me, and most everyone

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Capital F fashion is creative, visionary, artistic and out of reach for most everyone. I go to a museum for that kind of beauty, but when bringing art to my own home it's Jeffrey Berg or Lyn Horton, powerful images that weave poetry through each stroke, and also hit my price point for visual art. Likewise with clothes. I love flipping through Vogue, but my purchases are anything I love that fits in my $200 a month clothes budget. What we see on instagram labeled "fashion" tends to be trendy dreck with a high price tag and the only reason we're inundated with it now is because it's free to influencers who know best how to maneuver social media. If they had to buy their own clothes, there would be a lot more Nordstrom Rack.

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This is going to sound super nitpicky, so I want to first say that I totally agree, we all get dressed, we're all part of the fashion system, whether we want to be or not. However, not all of us get dressed every day. Sometimes we're too overworked, too tired, too unwell. There's a long list of reasons someone may not get dressed every single day. There's a lovely fashion podcast that begins with the line that this is the one thing we have in common: that we all get dressed every day. It grates on me every time. I wish they would drop the "every day" part. It really doesn't add much. (End of annoying nitpick.)

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I hear that, but I think the point they're trying to make is that we have to cover our bodies every day, even if we're unable to leave our bed. I call it "getting dressed" when I change out of what I wore to bed and i only do that a few times a week!

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Need to catch up on the links, but --

As a seamstress (yes I'm old fashioned, I call myself that even though sewist is the modern term) I was very interested in fashion from the time I could hold a needle. I learned a lot during the year in high school when I splurged on a subscription to Vogue. This is back in the day when people eagerly anticipated glossy media arriving at their house, because it was one of the primary ways to get information on what people would be wearing. I quickly realized that while I loved perusing the photos and figuring out construction there was very little in there that I could actually *wear*. Age and circumstances aside, as garments, most of the "fashion" was impractical for doing anything other than a photoshoot. I struggled with this. How to discuss being really, really interested in clothes, but never in fashion? Not, in fact, that interested in keeping up with trends?

Decades later, in grad school, I discovered that one of the terms used for the study of what people actually *wear* is Dress History. So you end up with topics such as the Anthropology of Dress, Dress and Identity, the Materiality of Dress, the Technology of Dress. I realize that those all sound rather academic but scholarly work aside, my interests lie in these areas, rather than in the study of Fashion. For me, Fashion has a lot of connotations that make it both limiting and inaccessible.

For me, reframing what I love to think about as the study of Dress makes sense. I think of many of the newsletters I read as different perspectives on "How to Get Dressed". Quite likely this isn't helpful to anyone but me; but in my brain it makes sense (and my brain has so much to say about it!)

NB: as used in this post, "Dress" refers to bodily ensembles of clothing, accessories, and body modification, not to dressES the garment type.

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That all makes perfect sense and is a nice way to differentiate. I’m trying to think how I would differentiate what I’m interested in as opposed to the study of fashion. Style as cultural study?

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I think of what you do as helping people navigate the cultural landscape of dress (1) to find a practice of dressing that accurately reflects how they situate themselves in the world. (2)

(1) to me this includes things like the economic structures in which clothes are produced and acquired, individual values about consumption, cultural norms and expectations, and more.

(2) Situations can be actual or aspirational or a combination and could involve things like adherence to or rejection of gender roles, expectations around age, contexts such as partnership or singlehood, career choice, and so on.

It seems to me as if your goal is helping people tweak the orientation of a bunch of overlapping lenses -- time, finances, size, personal likes, what's available, personal identity -- and find the combination of choices that helps them be most themselves.

But I could be totally wrong!

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no, you're absolutely correct and I've always had such a hard time describing what i do, but you did it so well!! may need to borrow some of that wording...😬

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borrow away! I'm happy if it's useful in any way.

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What you said! Though it does seem that increasingly Dress Studies & Fashion Studies intersect and overlap in the academy. As the influence of what is actually worn on the streets upon high fashion is studied and vice versa.

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OMG I so feel what you've written! Had I known back in (high) school that there was 'history of' / 'anthropology of' / etc. of fashion, I may have felt more at home or stuck with it longer. I always thought of fashion as only having to do with runways which was so intimidating / inaccessible to me. It really has to do with so. much. more! (and so much more ~interesting~ stuff!)

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Yes it is imho a rich field with a lot of interesting questions! Even for casual daydreaming you can quickly run into questions such as how some mode of dressing reflects the wearer's position in the global economy, or how current technology is or is not present in clothing and what that implies about the wearer. Highly recommend, but I'm biased :)

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Yes! A few years back (pre-Shein but post-'fast fashion' I noticed how the markers of class had really shifted given that now anyone could afford 'new' clothes even if they weren't top-quality. Now even rich kids are wearing some low quality stuff and don't seem to care, which would have been unheardof back in the 90s

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The study of dress rather than fashion - so interesting! Thanks!

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I like seeing what other people wear, but I’m also at a point where seeing someone whose income and life are radically different than mine isn’t inspiring for me. I have to be mindful about what I wear for my job, and seeing someone whose job is essentially to look cool and stylish doesn’t resonate for me anymore.

I find looks a lot more interesting when it has vintage or secondhand elements. I don’t come on here to buy more stuff. I want more ideas from thoughtful people.

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i agree, i think we all want a model of what style is within the parameters of our lifestyle and required function.

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Well stated! I had a hard time articulating how I was feeling. I do home visits with toddlers and their families, so I think about things like:

- will a small child be tempted to tug these earrings?

- would I be devastated if this were ruined?

- can I comfortably sit on the floor in this?

- what shoes can I wear with this outfit that pair well with socks so I’m not barefoot in someone else’s home?

I also try not to wear clothes that someone might perceive as “too flashy” out of concern that it would alienate a family because of my perceptions of their culture and financial situation.

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Loving this conversation. To me, it feels like Fashion is to diet culture as Style is to intuitive eating/recovery. Fashion feels oppressive and originating out there; it wants me to feel bad and spend money. Style is a friendly thing I can locate within me; it helps guide me in the relentless daily grind of having a self and a body in the world. I really loved the comments about Dress as daily wear for daily life — what people actually eat/wear to live is not usually what was held up at the time as in vogue/Vogue

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Ooh I like this framing! So many good ideas from so many of y’all!

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Yes! Style is friendly! Thank you for articulating this!

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Dear Dacy,

Every single thing you said I have thought or felt. I am also a personal stylist, in Miami, FL--where fashion and peacocking is very saturated in the culture. I can't stand it here--it is not me (but I like the climate and diversity). Like you, I want to work with "normal people" who appreciate the value of their hard earned money, and I wish to change how we consume and think about fashion. I also am called a "fashion person" sometimes and it makes me very uncomfortable, because I associate it with elitism. No dude, I just love and know about clothes more than the average person, that's all. I don't need to WEAR expensive or "stylish" clothes to embody that.

Having said that, I do have a hard time disassociating fashion from art/beauty, which I realize is kinda elitist lol. I value beauty greatly, I believe it is a fundamental part of our existence. Everyone interprets beauty differently, but also there are things we can collectively agree are beautiful--that's the mystery of beauty! But forcing yourself to make someone else's vision of beauty your own or conversely, when we force our vision of beauty onto others...that's when we/I have a problem.

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" I just love and know about clothes more than the average person, that's all. I don't need to WEAR expensive or "stylish" clothes to embody that." this! ps I lived in south beach for 3 years 🫠 not my vibe either

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Lately the utter sameness of all the fashion mags, blogs, and newsletters with more “accessible” price point content has increased exponentially. Has anyone noticed this? It’s endlessly Nordstrom, Gap (which also includes Old Navy, Banana Republic, and Athleta), and J Crew/Madewell. And within Nordstrom, it’s same brands that produce the same garments over and over in slightly different colorways. I feel like my eyes are crossing in utter boredom whenever I pull up The Mom Edit or Who What Wear or whatever. I’ve been doing deep dives into indie slow fashion brands but it’s not only a lot of time and research but a lot of those companies do different variations of the same things and many have prices I just won’t pay, the sale on sale hunt is simply too ingrained into my being. I walked into Dillards the other week and was appalled by the offerings. I don’t know, I trawl the resale sites but the specifications of my body (you all know this song and dance!) make it fairly hard to find things within budgets that aren’t a fit risk. I’ve been wracking my brain the past couple of weeks thinking about better alternatives but I just ended up putting a sizeable order on Gilt instead. Is anyone else struggling with this? Any suggestions or thoughts? Y’all are pretty much the only folx I can discuss this with, lol.

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SO GLAD you feel like this is a space for this, which it IS. It is really tough, everything you mention is true. Do you have a resale or consignment shop in your town? I know it would be easier if you can just try on immediately. There are a few indie brands that are reasonably priced off the top of my head Hackwith, Nettle's Tale, and Known Supply come to mind, and Pact and Quince are larger ones but there definitely is a prevailing aesthetic out there.

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Alas, all the good resale shops are in Santa Fe and I can’t get there very often. But I was visiting in June and found the perfect pair of Eileen Fisher red linen pants! I love them. Thank you for the indie recs, I’ll check them out. I keep wanting more prints in my wardrobe but everything I see that’s not dark florals doesn’t look right to me so I think maybe my thing is color blocking with bright colors?? I did not think that would be my style vibe in my 40s. 😂

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This is so true- everything/ everyone looks the same, and it's so boring. I find myself looking for uniqueness, both in what inspires me and how I dress, and I've mostly given up on ready-to-wear unless it's for basics, mainly shopping secondhand or making my own stuff (I'm fortunate to be able to sew). I have a pretty basic life but that doesn't mean I want to dress basic!

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“I have a pretty basic life but that doesn't mean I want to dress basic!” I both love this statement and also suspect you have an amazing rich, totally not basic interior life like me, which I think maybe we should respect and dress for more often.

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A few months ago I saw two nearly identical linen vests: one in the window of COS, one in the window of Banana Republic on the same trip to the mall. I've seen the design elsewhere since then too. The struggle is real! *le sigh*

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I shop basics at COS, Banana Republic, and Everlane and yes, definitely true that they all offer similar items. Once in a while there's an interesting sweater or dress, in which case I pounce, but all too often they're interchangeable. Same style, color, fabric. All bland.

And yes, Corinne's piece was brilliant.

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Oh yes! I could talk ENDLESSLY about how the 'democratisation of fashion' is complete and utter bullshit. It's just endless sameness in the pursuit of sales. Interestingly though, the two indie platforms Wolf & Badger and Garmentory are e-coms that are bucking all that (and growing too) although I can't say that they've got an equal distribution of qty across all sizes :(

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I would love to find out all of the behind the scenes on these things (the influencer-fueled $900 pants things).

As someone who's genuinely looking for just a long-lasting high-quality thing (be it a pair of black flares or whatever), I want to know that the price tag isn't for a brand name, too much, you know? And I feel like with influencers getting gifts in the mix, I genuinely can't tell what is good and what is not. Who to trust.

Good for the influencers, get the bag or whatever, but I wish there was more transparency about the realness of their reviews. Are you saying it's good because it's good, or because you got it for free, or because you're being paid to say it's good, what is it.

And now on tiktok, you have the parody of the skeptic, some performed better, some worse, to try to build trust. Enough people are doing it, that I don't trust the skepticism!!!! It's maddening.

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Honestly I don’t think you can EVER trust anyone who’s gotten something for free, including myself, which is why I’ve taken almost no gifted items over the last 11 years. It’s real.

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I first saw Hey Mrs. Solomon (substack influencer) reference her great $900 Prada pants find. I'd subscribed to her for one month and when I realized that I was starting to think that a $1000 purse was a steal, my mother slapped me from the stratosphere.

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Christina, yes to all this! Recently Elle Sundberg said how she was talking about how much she loved this cooler her husband got for free at work and then she realized, part of her love was that it was free. It is impossible (I believe that) to untangle your feelings for something from what you paid for it!

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Totally agree.

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I love this conversation and I have SO many thoughts that I just don't even know where to begin. I think when it comes to promoting stupidly high priced products, people maybe don't really think it through beyond the fact that it's currency to social (media) relevancy. Hype drivers. Are you expected to drool, purchase or consider them tastemakers? I've always felt more at home with the term 'style' and generally want to enjoy, create and share discussions around fashion theory and current style vs. product pushing. Like, would I shop someone else's grocery list? No, so why do I need someone's vacay shopping list? Maybe that's just me though :)

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I appreciate being included here, too!

I’ve noticed this topic has been gaining traction here. It feels heartening. The personal experiences being shared are so meaningful, and highlight how fashion is *actually for everyone*. Like another commenter said, every person has to get dressed in the morning, regardless of identity or financial status!

More than anything, I just hope this dialogue can help to shake up the “sameness” that Corinne named. A unique point of view (stylistically or otherwise), the courage to stand out, and resourcefulness are so much more admirable to me than whether or not you can afford to buy The Row.

Anyway, just really glad I came across your newsletter today!

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I'm so happy your note crossed my path and we were able to connect!

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I love hearing your perspective. Corinne's piece was SO good too! Thank you for linking the other ones for further reading. I really like this platform AND it still functions in similar ways as other spaces when it comes to limited visibility and discovery being focused on the "larger" accounts.

If you haven't seen it yet, SmallStack is being put together by Robin Taylor and a beautiful mix of other folks here on the platform to highlight newsletters with less than 500 subs. As with most things, its the communities coming together to build it themselves that start to get the word out for discovery and connection. https://smallstack.substack.com/

Thank you for your work and your voice. I love that you're here and I learn so much from all the others you uplift and share about. <3

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Dacy, thanks so much for including me and continuing this conversation! Seeing as I also don’t feel like a fashion person, I am hopeful SS will continue to be a safe space we can say these things, explore our perspective, etc.

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I hope so too!

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I was a Fashion Person once upon a time. Now I have a very different life, but I still read lots of Fashion content because it’s (mostly) fun for me. I still care about feeling good in my clothes and I will play around with a trend when it speaks to me.

But the most helpful question I’ve learned to ask, do I like this look/style/piece or do I just like this body/setting/lifestyle. I know the TikTok etc trend (is it a fit or is she just skinny) can be problematic but, for me, there is value in looking critically at Fashion to tease out whether I am drawn to something because I truly love it or because of the lifestyle or body that it represents.

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I wonder if anyone noticed this during the days shopping at brick and mortar pre-internet. My mother loved browsing Lord and Taylor's and Macy's on any given Saturday afternoon. It was her time to indulge in the tactile. She visited only certain stores in certain parts of town because she noted that depending which branch (particularly Macy's) the quality of the clothes shifted. Put bluntly, in working class neighborhoods, Macy's sold dreck, cheap, sub-quality, Macy's store brand, presented poorly, as the junk that they regarded it as. Middle class neighborhoods targeted the professional, both men's and women's wear, but particularly women's, whether business or casual. Ann Taylor, Perry Ellis, Norma Kamali, Ralph Lauren, Liz Claiborne and Elizabeth, Donna Karan, Jones New York. The stores were pristine; shopping was an experience. My mother always came home with a shoppers' high (and a few bags). This leapt to mind as we discuss elitism in fashion. I'm coming to understand that it always existed. My mother taught me how to maneuver it when I was young because working class though we were, we must never look it.

On another note, I ran across this brand today. By-line says target is "curvy" women. Wonder if anyone has tried them.

https://paripassushop.com/pages/our-story

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The link I'm sharing isn't about fashion. Instead it's about bodies. I think of it (1) because it's fresh on my mind having been published this morning and (2) because part of what is at the core of all of these discussions is body acceptance, our own body acceptance as well as acknowledgment of ourselves in our bodies by community, whether that community be our families, employers, clothiers, or society at large. Here is the link. I'd love it if you'd share your feedback.

https://open.substack.com/pub/thefullxlife/p/post-diet-culture-syndrome?r=o29cv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web

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