It makes sense and at the same time it seems limited. If a straight size person prioritizes comfort over the traditional definition of flattering as looking smaller, that person can generally get both physical comfort and still access an image of themselves for themselves and from others that is both validated as worthy and not subject to anti-fat harm, not completely, but at least as compared to a plus size person who is not generally able to do those things. So how does one access a definition of what one likes outside of the context of a society that has created the fashion rules and more importantly when those fashion rules often heavily influence appearance-based discrimination in employment, housing, healthcare, dating, family life, public accommodations etc. I honestly don’t have an answer about how to get beyond this with fashion because it seems so systemic.
It is absolutely limited. I'm actually working on next week's post (about the ladder of body hierarchy) right now and I'm trying to make more clear how some of these things are only available to those who won't be punished for letting go of society's acceptability standards. I have an honest question for you (and I'm grateful to you for bringing up these perspectives) - do you think fat people are punished any less if they try to adhere to fashion standards? Or is it just an illusion and they will just get the anti-fat treatment anyway? Just thinking out loud here - I know there is punishment for being "sloppy" when a thinner person just looks "casual", for example, but what about things like performing "defining a waist" or "balancing your proportions" or wearing "your" colors? Do those give a benefit? Again, acknowledging my thin privilege here and want to thank you for bringing this up and educating me on things that I don't have lived experience for. I appreciate your labor in doing so.
From my personal experience as a fat person and that of my fat friends, yes I think I have been punished less when adhering to fashion standards. Defining my waist/curves and balancing proportions contribute to the perception that I look slimmer or that I am “trying” my best. This is the good fatty trope and it has given me opportunities that when I wear less shaped clothes I don’t get. One example is employment where I have had women bosses actually comment on my attire and change their attitude toward me as if I am more like them. They would talk to me more and I would be listened to and the whole dynamic was less combative just because of my apparel! Another is dating where the opportunity to even be seen as a potential date skyrockets with this kind of attire but also reduces anti-fat hate comments. It can increase aggressive sexualizing comments so it’s a trade off and I think that’s the kind of behavior that is “expected” in patriarchy as people get closer to the body ideal. I definitely hate that I just wrote that sentence. As for colors, I think this one is harder for me to comment on because I wear the colors that look good on me because I love them. I have heard from other people that they get a lot of “concern” at first and back to the not “trying” idea if they keep up with “unflattering” colors especially if in “unflattering” outfits. So I think it’s a function of adding to the shaming and idea that fat people need to help themselves bootstrapping mentality rather than that anti-fatness is systemic. So only if it’s cartoon villain style hate can anti-fatness be something that other people need to address and only if the fat person did everything to be a good fatty first. I hope that helps.
Absolutely and I absolutely see how (unfortunately) those little token efforts are expected and how you would be punished in subtle ways for not adhering to that. Thank you so much for elaborating.
I’m a Certified Intuitive Eating Counselor, and I love the parallel between IE and fashion. Since discovering IE I have been slowly dismantling the limiting beliefs that we have to “conform” to a certain way of dressing, one that aims to bring us closer to the thin ideal. As I enter perimenopause, I’ve also been exploring the roles of ageism and sexuality in fashion. I’m committed to remaining curious and nonjudgmental as I unpack decades of messaging about what is “flattering” and focusing on how I want to feel in clothes rather than on how others perceive me. I also think it’s important to acknowledge the privilege of access for both IE and fashion. People
Thanks to Amy for adding the complexities of the conversation. I’ve been in a straight-sized body and a larger-sized body and there are vast differences with dressing and repercussions. I started intuitive eating for eating disorder recovery and received nothing but pushback and stigmatization from the medical community as my body changed. My size also changed where I shopped for clothes and how many choices were available. My style of what I felt comfortable in changed as well.
I think intuitive dressing for me now is just giving less effs and doing more of what I want. This probably is a function of age also (52). As a straight-sized person, most of my discomfort is self-imposed. Certainly, not consciously but wondering how something looks, if it’s fashionable, how my body looks, if self-perceived flaws are showing, etc. I’m certainly trying to let those things go. I also work for myself so don’t have to deal with dress expectations in a workplace. I do public speaking and have started to disregard a lot of professional expectations over the last several years. No heels. No spanx. I wear sneakers or boots with insoles. This also extends to hair and makeup. I let my hair go gray in 2020 and am very unconcerned about what people think about it. I do think IE made asking myself questions much easier and more of a habit. What do I want to wear vs what *should* I wear? How do I want to feel vs how do I want to look? Very similar to how I approach eating.
Also, lots of layers of privilege because the worst thing that happens to me is I get side-eye or talked about behind my back. 🤷🏻♀️
Completely agree with your point about your body changes leading to changes in your style. And props for shifting the story of how public speakers need to show up and for acknowledging your privilege in doing so!
It makes sense and at the same time it seems limited. If a straight size person prioritizes comfort over the traditional definition of flattering as looking smaller, that person can generally get both physical comfort and still access an image of themselves for themselves and from others that is both validated as worthy and not subject to anti-fat harm, not completely, but at least as compared to a plus size person who is not generally able to do those things. So how does one access a definition of what one likes outside of the context of a society that has created the fashion rules and more importantly when those fashion rules often heavily influence appearance-based discrimination in employment, housing, healthcare, dating, family life, public accommodations etc. I honestly don’t have an answer about how to get beyond this with fashion because it seems so systemic.
It is absolutely limited. I'm actually working on next week's post (about the ladder of body hierarchy) right now and I'm trying to make more clear how some of these things are only available to those who won't be punished for letting go of society's acceptability standards. I have an honest question for you (and I'm grateful to you for bringing up these perspectives) - do you think fat people are punished any less if they try to adhere to fashion standards? Or is it just an illusion and they will just get the anti-fat treatment anyway? Just thinking out loud here - I know there is punishment for being "sloppy" when a thinner person just looks "casual", for example, but what about things like performing "defining a waist" or "balancing your proportions" or wearing "your" colors? Do those give a benefit? Again, acknowledging my thin privilege here and want to thank you for bringing this up and educating me on things that I don't have lived experience for. I appreciate your labor in doing so.
From my personal experience as a fat person and that of my fat friends, yes I think I have been punished less when adhering to fashion standards. Defining my waist/curves and balancing proportions contribute to the perception that I look slimmer or that I am “trying” my best. This is the good fatty trope and it has given me opportunities that when I wear less shaped clothes I don’t get. One example is employment where I have had women bosses actually comment on my attire and change their attitude toward me as if I am more like them. They would talk to me more and I would be listened to and the whole dynamic was less combative just because of my apparel! Another is dating where the opportunity to even be seen as a potential date skyrockets with this kind of attire but also reduces anti-fat hate comments. It can increase aggressive sexualizing comments so it’s a trade off and I think that’s the kind of behavior that is “expected” in patriarchy as people get closer to the body ideal. I definitely hate that I just wrote that sentence. As for colors, I think this one is harder for me to comment on because I wear the colors that look good on me because I love them. I have heard from other people that they get a lot of “concern” at first and back to the not “trying” idea if they keep up with “unflattering” colors especially if in “unflattering” outfits. So I think it’s a function of adding to the shaming and idea that fat people need to help themselves bootstrapping mentality rather than that anti-fatness is systemic. So only if it’s cartoon villain style hate can anti-fatness be something that other people need to address and only if the fat person did everything to be a good fatty first. I hope that helps.
Absolutely and I absolutely see how (unfortunately) those little token efforts are expected and how you would be punished in subtle ways for not adhering to that. Thank you so much for elaborating.
I’m a Certified Intuitive Eating Counselor, and I love the parallel between IE and fashion. Since discovering IE I have been slowly dismantling the limiting beliefs that we have to “conform” to a certain way of dressing, one that aims to bring us closer to the thin ideal. As I enter perimenopause, I’ve also been exploring the roles of ageism and sexuality in fashion. I’m committed to remaining curious and nonjudgmental as I unpack decades of messaging about what is “flattering” and focusing on how I want to feel in clothes rather than on how others perceive me. I also think it’s important to acknowledge the privilege of access for both IE and fashion. People
Love your commitment to remain curious and nonjudgmental. Also digging deeper in ageism and sexuality as I…well, age.
Thanks to Amy for adding the complexities of the conversation. I’ve been in a straight-sized body and a larger-sized body and there are vast differences with dressing and repercussions. I started intuitive eating for eating disorder recovery and received nothing but pushback and stigmatization from the medical community as my body changed. My size also changed where I shopped for clothes and how many choices were available. My style of what I felt comfortable in changed as well.
I think intuitive dressing for me now is just giving less effs and doing more of what I want. This probably is a function of age also (52). As a straight-sized person, most of my discomfort is self-imposed. Certainly, not consciously but wondering how something looks, if it’s fashionable, how my body looks, if self-perceived flaws are showing, etc. I’m certainly trying to let those things go. I also work for myself so don’t have to deal with dress expectations in a workplace. I do public speaking and have started to disregard a lot of professional expectations over the last several years. No heels. No spanx. I wear sneakers or boots with insoles. This also extends to hair and makeup. I let my hair go gray in 2020 and am very unconcerned about what people think about it. I do think IE made asking myself questions much easier and more of a habit. What do I want to wear vs what *should* I wear? How do I want to feel vs how do I want to look? Very similar to how I approach eating.
Also, lots of layers of privilege because the worst thing that happens to me is I get side-eye or talked about behind my back. 🤷🏻♀️
Completely agree with your point about your body changes leading to changes in your style. And props for shifting the story of how public speakers need to show up and for acknowledging your privilege in doing so!
Love to see IE as a topic here because I feel like to dovetails so well with clothing and dressing!
I feel like they are so intertwined!